Father, son charged with selling fake coins
 

Father, son charged with selling fake coins

http://tinyurl.com/5ayfls

Monday, 28 Apr 2008, 9:25 PM EDT

Police say a man in Mulberry was selling fake coins.

MULBERRY - Polk detectives say a coins dealer in Mulberry has short changed one man, and possibly many more.

They arrested John Green and his 18-year-old son Jonathan after an undercover investigation. Green owns AAA Coin and Jewelry.

It all started when a local collector bought several coins from Green, and they turned out to be phony.

"He was upset because he lost more than one thousand dollars," an undercover detective told FOX 13.

So the man co-operated with law enforcement. The Polk Sheriff's Office gave the collector $500 to buy more coins from Green as evidence. Investigators say they turned out to be fake too, so they raided Green's shop.

"They took out five or six plastic boxes that they brought from their cars...filled them up with stuff," said Angel Calendaria. Calendaria, who runs Mulberry Key Shop, rents office space from Green, right next door to the coin store.

Investigators say they seized thousands of coins from the place, and are now trying to figure out which ones are real, and which may not be. Detectives say Green told them he had no idea the coins were not real.

Green is accused of selling fake coins, but investigators suspect he may have been doing more than just that -- they found the tools in his house to make coins.

The Sheriff's office says anyone who bought a coin from Green should have it checked out by an expert to make sure it's the real thing. They say since he sold on E-bay, many people may be in for an unpleasant surprise.

"So there could be potential for a much larger base of victims out there," said Carrie Rogers, a Polk Sheriff's Office spokeswoman.

Green has been through this before. Back in 2000, the Feds convicted him of selling fake coins. He served 18 months in prison.

Re: Father, son charged with selling fake coins
 

It all started when a local collector bought several coins from Green, and they turned out to be phony.

Try that ATSHTF and you will be swinging from neartest tree branch by your entrails.

Justice will be swift in the future I assure you.



T

Re: Father, son charged with selling fake coins
 

....with hollowpoints

Re: Father, son charged with selling fake coins
 

I could see this becoming a heavy trend in the not so distant future. The more the metals rise, the more we'll be reading similar stories. Tread softly and trust no one.

Re: Father, son charged with selling fake coins
 

in brass casings.

Re: Father, son charged with selling fake coins
 

Since they paid for them with fake money was there really a crime committed? :D

Re: Father, son charged with selling fake coins
 

Re: Father, son charged with selling fake coins
 

So did they mention the eBay selling name?

Re: Father, son charged with selling fake coins
 

I had a man call me today offering to sell me some Carson City's.

I am not an expert at "seeing" fake. Should I just avoid it completely?

He wants to sell to me rather than going to dealers who would not give him a fair price. I am not a dealer... somewhat of a neophyte. My ability at spotting fake is probably not good. But my contact info is out there as someone looking to buy...I have been kind of pro-active in the way I have made myself known to the dealers around town. I've kind of dived in....

This older gentleman claims to have collected for 45 years and told a good story. Still, there was something about the call left me wondering. I think I will ask him to meet me in a public place with just one of the CC's for me to look at.

Any words of advice? : )

Don't know what he is expecting per coin yet.

Is there any info on fake CC's showing up?

thanks!

Re: Father, son charged with selling fake coins
 

Use the Google! Google is your friend. You have unlimited amounts of invaluable information right at your fingertips. Use it! I wouldn't think there would be many (if any) fake CC's out there. But, to the untrained eye, the possiblility is many. You should never simply 'dive right in' to anything in which you plan on allocating any portion of your hard earned $.

This guy may or may not be trying to scam you. Search the google. Find some example photos. Learn about proper markings. Buy a (real) common dated Morgan or two just so you can know how an actual morgan looks/feels. If it's a CC Morgan, check ebay for recent prices to give you an idea on the going market price. Read up on coin grading. Not that you will become a pro at it within a matter of days, but at least you won't be completely blind. If the coins you plan to purchase are graded by places like PCGS or NGC, at least you can take comfort in knowing that you are buying exactly what you are being sold.

Here's a good link on coin grading. A good 'how to' for beginners.

I would say good luck. But, as with anything else, luck is really just an extension of your ability to not get screwed.

Re: Father, son charged with selling fake coins
 

Get an inexpensive digital scale, and check the weight of each coin at a minimum. A variation of less than a half of a gram may be OK, but a coin weight that differs by more than a gram should be a concern. A digital caliper would also be helpful to make sure that the coin diameter and thickness is what you would expect. The scale or the caliper can be purchased for around $10 - $15 on FeeBay. If you don't want to mess with a caliper, you can do something comparable by tracing around a known good coin on a piece of cardboard and cutting out the circular hole so that the coin will fit sung inside the hole. You can also cut a slot the same thickness as the known coin. If the coin weight is OK, and it properly fits into the template of holes you cut from the known good coin, and the appearance looks good, then the odds are that it is a good coin.

Some other good advice I saw in one of these threads is to make the purchase inside the lobby of your bank. Make it clear in advance that you will not bring cash to the bank (because you will withdraw it when you get there), and that you will not take the coins out of the bank (because you will immediately put them into your safe deposit box). Good luck! :wink:

Re: Father, son charged with selling fake coins
 

At the very least, sitting down a caliper and scale will suggest you know what you're doing. That's usually enough to scare off anyone who knows they're handling fakes. If he's happy enough while you're measuring and weighing .... either he knows his fakes are good enough to pass, he hasn't any idea if it's a fake, or it's the real thing. I do like the idea of performing the transaction under the cameras at the bank. I personally use the service counter at the local hardware store. Let the manager know in advance so that noone thinks it's a drug sale, tho.

Re: Father, son charged with selling fake coins
 

I can't believe you made me do all the work! I asked here so others could tell me instantly. ha, just kidding with ya.

So I came up with this:
<<Dealer Identifies Fake Morgans
By Numismatic News
April 10, 2008
Fake Morgan dollars identified by Montgomery, Ill., dealer Tom Campbell of Tom's Fine Coins led to an April 4 arrest of an individual who was attempting to sell them through online classified ads.

"About half were common date," Campbell said. "All weighed 18-19 grams and were attracted to a magnet, some weak, some strong."

Approximately 20 coins ultimately were involved, though Campbell initially attempted only to buy two 1885-CC dollars for $280. He asked the seller to bring them in person and he would pay $40 per coin more. They arranged to meet in a public place in Plainfield, Ill.

When Campbell realized they were fake, he contacted the Lansing, Ill., Police Department, where the seller was from.

The seller later contacted him offering an 1893-O, 1892-O and an 1886. Campbell worked with the police to set up a sting in a local business in Lansing. When Campbell signaled that the offered coins were fakes, the police moved in and made an arrest of the suspect and his wife, who was waiting in a car.

Det. Chuck Weeden said there were 20 coins involved when all was said and done. Four were from another individual who spent $350 on them a month ago and filled out a police report when he realized they were fakes.

The suspect had three in his possession during the sting and 11 more were found in his apartment.

Weeden said husband and wife were questioned separately. Both were cooperative. They said her father, who had died a year ago, had owned a jewelry store and they had gotten the coins from him. The detective confirmed that the father had indeed owned a jewelry store.

Weeden said the suspect did not have a criminal record, read little English, was unemployed and was likely to be sent home to Mexico within a week, so no charges would be filed, but they were working on restitution.

On April 11, 2008 David Smith said
These fake dollars are everywhere. I saw bunches of them the Memphis Paper Money Show a year ago. They were identified as reproductions, but they looked authentic.

There are also loads of them on Ebay. Some sellers just say things like, " I suspect this coin to be fake based upon circumstances of my purchase of it." None are marker Copy or Reproduction.

I think there are entirely too many replicas out there today. You cannot skim Ebay without loads of replicas in you way. Someday we will be seeing more fakes than real coins and only the experts will be able to tell the difference.

On April 11, 2008 Leon Saryan said
I was interested to read of this bust, but I cannot imagine a knowledgeable collector or competent dealer being fooled by severely underweight coins. These counterfeits are being made or sold by the thousands or hundreds of thousands in the Far East.

The sad part of this story is that no matter how loudly we moan about counterfeits, people will still sell them and unsphisticated buyers will still buy them.

The worst offenders are on eBay, where fakes sell for the same prices as real coins all day long. And eBay, for all its high-minded prattle, is doing absolutely nothing to stop the trade. >>

http://numismaster.com/ta/numis/Arti...ArticleId=4104

In my phone conversation with this guy with the Morgans I mentioned, is that at one point he said "I have something else that is really exciting..." he went on to tell me about a collectible plate, one of 5000 "which they broke the mold for". He did not ask if i was interested, but just the way he said "I have somelthing else really exciting..." right there my radar started beeping and I felt a little ill.

I think I may just avoid meeting this guy.

Re: Father, son charged with selling fake coins
 

when you say trust no one, that is not really useful advice, since you always end up having to trust someone. so the question is who do you trust and for what.

get a relationship going with an established long term dealer in your area with a reputation and you will benefit greatly from the knowledge that they will transmit to you if you are patient and listen and pay them back with regular purchases